what do smalltalk -erz think of plan9 from bell labs?

[johannes falcone]

cruious?

could smalltalk do something similar from user space?

[Friedrich Dominicus]

Post by johannes falcone
cruious?
could smalltalk do something similar from user space?

I just can tell my personal opinion. I had plan 9 running in a virtual
machine. I think it would be good to have. But I guess the time for a
new OS has not yet come again. You see Linux takes it all. And so Bell 9
is the same as Smalltalk in Programming Languages, I would assume
Smalltalk is "just" better used. It works everywhere and it works quite
nice at least on the most popular systems.

But it does not look as if Smalltalk will make it up again just near the
top. It's a tool that many admire but few really use. It's the same
situation for Common Lisp, Scheme and other excpeptinal languages. The
IT-World is C, C++, Java, C#, maybe Natural (SAP), VB, and Objective-C on Macs. So this few
languages are used for 80% - 90 % of the software production.

And so we have 80 % of the OS market in th hands of Windows, another
10-15 % for Mac OS X and hundreds of other OSes for the other 5-10%. In
the Server market I would expect that Linux is quite near the top. But
well for one server there are how many desktops? 1000? 10000 ? I've no idea.

[johannes falcone]

Can better tool be used to produce better apps and websites at lower cost?
Thus beating the morons who use windosw and java etc?
I think so.
THe problem is crony politics I think.
In the end tho the customer will choose one better website.
Problem is staying enough money until you get enough customers.

[Friedrich Dominicus]

Post by johannes falcone
Can better tool be used to produce better apps and websites at lower cost?
Thus beating the morons who use windosw and java etc?

They are not morons, and they have very good arguments. There are much
or useful libraries available in Java then many other languages. You can
not deny that. And so you can be faster and get better qualitiy
websites with Java then with Smalltalk.

Post by johannes falcone
I think so.
THe problem is crony politics I think.

No it has to do with the availability of libraries. Smalltalk is much
older but the libraries are more often as seldom of a sorry very poor
state. Just try such simple things as a class generator for XSD
files. There is a tool for that on Windows and it works, there is
nothing like that for Smalltalk and so there are tons of libraries which
one can use with Java, C etc, but way less for Smalltalk and of a murky
quality.

It's as "sad" as that.

Post by johannes falcone
In the end tho the customer will choose one better website.

The customer simply does not care, which language you use. He just cares
about getting his things done in manner the customer likes. What makes a
better website and asked frankly. Tell me one exceptional Smalltalk
website one "must" use. You will not be able to find it. That should
tell you something.

Post by johannes falcone
Problem is staying enough money until you get enough customers.

No that is not a problem of money. It's the problem to have enough
customers that you can afford further development. Look ad Dolphin
Smalltalk, by so many means is an exceptionell software but it's not
progressing any more. Can you use the .Net libraries with it? No you
can't. So to make it plain clear. Smalltalk is for enthusiasts, but's
it's not the first choice "technically". The state of libraries is much
worse then for Java or .NET languages.

[johannes falcone]

the idea is to skip using windows

skip using java

and have nice smalltlak powered website

let users enjoy it in any web browser say firefox!!

I don't know what java lib you were talking about and what it does but smaltalk can clearly do websites and handle very large data bases with gemstone, the image, or even magma on enuf hardware

so there is no limit or need to use java atoll

skip all that integration crap

who need to talk to windows? no one when server can be freebsd!! client windows or mac with firefox!!

[derr-fhurherr]

Post by Friedrich Dominicus

Post by johannes falcone
Can better tool be used to produce better apps and websites at lower cost?
Thus beating the morons who use windosw and java etc?

They are not morons, and they have very good arguments. There are much
or useful libraries available in Java then many other languages. You can
not deny that. And so you can be faster and get better qualitiy
websites with Java then with Smalltalk.

Post by johannes falcone
I think so.
THe problem is crony politics I think.

No it has to do with the availability of libraries. Smalltalk is much
older but the libraries are more often as seldom of a sorry very poor
state. Just try such simple things as a class generator for XSD
files. There is a tool for that on Windows and it works, there is
nothing like that for Smalltalk and so there are tons of libraries which
one can use with Java, C etc, but way less for Smalltalk and of a murky
quality.
It's as "sad" as that.

Post by johannes falcone
In the end tho the customer will choose one better website.

The customer simply does not care, which language you use. He just cares
about getting his things done in manner the customer likes. What makes a
better website and asked frankly. Tell me one exceptional Smalltalk
website one "must" use. You will not be able to find it. That should
tell you something.

Post by johannes falcone
Problem is staying enough money until you get enough customers.

No that is not a problem of money. It's the problem to have enough
customers that you can afford further development. Look ad Dolphin
Smalltalk, by so many means is an exceptionell software but it's not
progressing any more. Can you use the .Net libraries with it? No you
can't. So to make it plain clear. Smalltalk is for enthusiasts, but's
it's not the first choice "technically". The state of libraries is much
worse then for Java or .NET languages.
--
Please remove just-for-news- to reply via e-mail.

well the point is to NOT use .net
or java
smalltalk can produce superior websites cheaper
so why this need for magical libraries?
the idea is to skip windows and oracle and .net and java
use freebsd and smalltalk
done
:)

I dont think you NEED any of those libraries.
If you skip the goal of even having to deal with .net or java then smalltakl wins.
:)

aside from that if .net and java can't interact over common protocalls like http and tcp/ip then they really are vendor lockin swaamps

[derr-fhurherr]

Post by Friedrich Dominicus

Post by johannes falcone
cruious?
could smalltalk do something similar from user space?

I just can tell my personal opinion. I had plan 9 running in a virtual
machine. I think it would be good to have. But I guess the time for a
new OS has not yet come again. You see Linux takes it all. And so Bell 9
is the same as Smalltalk in Programming Languages, I would assume
Smalltalk is "just" better used. It works everywhere and it works quite
nice at least on the most popular systems.
But it does not look as if Smalltalk will make it up again just near the
top. It's a tool that many admire but few really use. It's the same
situation for Common Lisp, Scheme and other excpeptinal languages. The
IT-World is C, C++, Java, C#, maybe Natural (SAP), VB, and Objective-C on Macs. So this few
languages are used for 80% - 90 % of the software production.
And so we have 80 % of the OS market in th hands of Windows, another
10-15 % for Mac OS X and hundreds of other OSes for the other 5-10%. In
the Server market I would expect that Linux is quite near the top. But
well for one server there are how many desktops? 1000? 10000 ? I've no idea.
--
Please remove just-for-news- to reply via e-mail.

well you can alos watch youtube in firefox on freebsd and use any webap atoll without mac

can skip mac entirely